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04/02/2009 16:22:56
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wecandobiz
Posts 37
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I am not sure what anyone knows about Sales 2.0 on these forums. In essence, it is using social media as a tool for progressing sales. It can take many forms, from the mild (participating with customers and markets on Twitter), through to CRM systems integrated with social networks in order to mine data on prospects. In one way or another many companies engage in it whether they knew or not.
But many don't and Neil and I have just had an hour long conversation wondering why that might be. Neil took a view that social networks are still alien to many sales professionals, in a business context at least, and they haven't yet ventured into the sphere to see what it offers. I took another view where many people DO know what Web 2.0 is, but also know that if there are importan prospect discussions and information being shared, they are a binf to locate and make use of -- there are too few gold nuggets amongst the pages and pages of dross. I could see many reasons why sales managers may not want their teams trawling through Facebook, Twitter or LinkedIn hoping to find someone looking for what they supply.
Perhaps Sales 2.0 won't establich itself until there are much better ways of locating the information of use and easily driving the conversation in a controlled manner -- these things are too hard to do in open forums. If the pertinent data found its way automactially into your CRM or SFA system, so that looking at the customer record for an individual shows you key details from their public profiles, information of group memberships, likes and dislikes, comments they may have made on your company or market, this is going to be MUCH more useful and usable than what you might possible find under your own steam from the same sources.
We're making some efforts at WeCanDo.BIZ to try and expedite the route to the latter ideal in smaller steps. We already have an area where our business members can post details of their most urgent business need, which we then send to other members who have detailed they provide matching solutions (how long might you have to wait on Twitter to get one of those?). In the next few weeks we'll let members download details of the contacts they have made on our site, including the Biz Needs they have posted. The CSV can be imported into a CRM system, although I'd love to see this happening autocatically, as new/updated Biz Needs could come over instantly too. But its a start.
Of course, we have only 10,000 members as opposed to the 6 million of Twitter, 30 million of LinkedIn and 150 million of Facebook. But sure it will be quality prospects that count above all else? What are 150 million pages of photos worth compared to one lead on the back of which you could get a pretty certain sale...?
I'd be interested in others views of Sales 2.0 and whether it is helping them now or whether there is more they need from it for it to be effective.
Ian Hendry
WeCanDo.BIZ
http://www.wecando.biz
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04/02/2009 22:01:02
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It's the way I sell 'em
Posts 45
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Sounds really useful, Ian, but does anybody else worry like me about the data protection aspects of all this, identity theft and simply opening oneself up to endless spam? Hot leads (or, conversely, useful products and services on offer) would be excellent but so often this comes at the price of your in-box being bombarded by endless cr*p.
I for one soon learnt to set my Facebook profile to "friends only" and LI has certain safeguards. Where do you strke the balance between functionality and intrusion?
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05/02/2009 08:53:16
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wecandobiz
Posts 37
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Social networks have given cause to be concerned about privacy for a number of reasons, just two of which I'll mention:
- Facebook, where you sign over to Facebook anything you upload when you accept their Ts & Cs. As such, they are can do anything with it. People are getting really concerned about this, especially as there seems to be some evidence Facebook has recently sold member information to a market research firm that is asking specific, targeted members to take part in a poll. This coule be just the begining...
- LinkedIn, where poople happily upload and make public specific details of their career and roles, making it easy for someone to pretend to be them for the purposes of hiding their real identity when taking a job, for example.
We make public only the sort of information that a company would list on their website, along with a contact name. But we don't show an e-mail address on your profile) which would guarantee spam!) and the messaging method requires both parties to be members of our site - and we have no mass, indiscriminate messaging capabilities. We even allow a member to specify that they do not wish to receive cold calls next to their contact number!
We will be enabling e-mail addresses to be shared "behind the scenes" but only if you have stipulated you want this done.
Your points are entirely valid, but in getting "out there" to pick up prospects one also has to acknowledge that making yourself contactable for prospects also makes you contactable for everyone else. We hope that the fact that our community requires registration and authentication each time will help cut down abuse -- to date, since May last year we have had only one spamming incident and they only reached 17 of our 10,000+ members.
I hope this helps.
Ian Hendry
CEO, WeCanDo.BIZ
http://www.wecando.biz
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06/02/2009 12:21:50
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NeilWarren
Posts 645
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Hi Ian – and thanks for the post/thread.
If I could return to your reference to our conversation, I would just like to emphasise what I meant about sales people getting to grips with all this. And I don’t mean to be patronising or condescending to anyone who is getting the hang of it, but I suspect that, out of 750,000 UK sales professionals, maybe 10% spend any amount of time “selling” on line (but not all of them all the time), so perhaps 1-3% of what might be termed “selling time” (750,000 x 40 hours a week x 48 weeks) is online selling.
And I also suspect that those of us who have got somewhat immersed in these new means of information gathering and communication tend to assume that the rest of the world has or will catch up, with all of our "Sales 2.0", “RSS feeds” and “SEO” or “Google Alert” talk. Not necessarily true, methinks, or certainly not at the speed that we fondly imagine. Luckily though, we both have a background in selling, and still do sell a fair bit today, so I thought a quick look at how that has and is changing, might help.
1. 30 years ago, I had a telephone and a box of contact cards, and did all of my selling by ringing prospects up, negotiating and closing a deal (ad space), and then mailing or faxing the paperwork.
2. A couple more years saw me add in the motor car, and get out and about meeting people and pressing the flesh, but with essentially the same phone/card/mail mechanisms backing it up.
3. 20 years ago (late 80’s) we got our first PC’s, and started putting contact details into whatever was the basic CRM system of the time. I recall Tracker/Maximizer, which I still use today, but seem to remember that it was mostly to automate letter writing, which still went in the post.
4. 10 years ago, and I can recall the start of communicating by email. And I specifically recall a conversation with one client who was saying “oh yes, I must do 30/40/50% of my business by email now, check it every hour”. I think I might have been on one a day at the time, but did decide to start collecting email addresses on our database – just in case!
5. 5 years ago, and I was definitely aware that those email addresses were just about the most valuable resource we had on the database – then and now in massive demand. I and was probably at a 50/50 split between email conversations and telephone.
6. Today? I guess maybe 90% of my selling activity is across a mix of email, forums, “social media” if you will, research on the web and so on. And I often think of this as laying out a trail of breadcrumbs, so that “they” can find “me”. I do have an average of 4 or 5 “sales” telephone conversations a day, but mostly as a result of having touched base online, or just to confirm a correct contact to whom I am probably then going to send an email. Referral and network marketing – yes sure – but I never went to the local hotel in the first place, so these remain in specialist areas and “online communities” that interest and are of potential value to me.
So, I love everything that you – and we – are doing to encourage and enable these methods of communication, but I do still wonder where anybody else is on that kind of sliding scale?
And I'll just chuck in a couple of further examples about these issues. Like the telephone just rang whilst I was finishing this post, from an advertiser who had found us online, of course, but who was struggling to find the Jobs Section - go to the Modern Selling Home Page and see if you can spot it (!). And then you and I were talking about a blog from Dave Stein - Sales 2.0: Does It Enable Effective Selling Or Is It Yet Another Decoy? and he finishes that with "Do you think a solid, complied-with sales process is the backbone upon which Sales 2.0 applications must be layered? Or not?"
edited by NeilWarren on 06/02/2009
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06/02/2009 13:03:09
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wecandobiz
Posts 37
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Great addition Neil and I hope you didn't feel I misquoted you in the first place.
Interesting to hear how much of the sales you close now include social media, but perhaps to attempt to answer Dave Stein's question, are they CLOSED over social media? I would imagine only a fraction are. But what social media IS great for is the introductions.
I get involved in a lot of cold calling by 'phone and my own view of that medium is that if you are successful, you will still only be able to achieve so much. Low value ad sales might be closed that way (with a supporting PO using post, mail or fax), but if you are selling bigger ticket items then it will get you a qualified pipeline easily, but you'll probably still need to meet the person so they can see the whites of your eyes before they spend, say, £10,000 with you.
Social media is the same. I could well believe I'd find prospects on Twitter or WeCanDo.BIZ, as examples, but my expectation is that as soon as an initial level of qualification has been done that way then you'll revert to the medium people are comfortable with to take the sale further. Closing deals is all about winning confidence and making the customer comfortable, after all.
So does Web 2.0 need its own sales process? Not so sure. I think it just needs the same kind of approach you take when you need any prospect data at the start of a campaign. Do you need any process steps and rules other than spend your time where the money is (the prospects are) and plant the seeds so the prospects come to you (social media marketing)...?
By the way, I see the ability to qualify using social media as great, as this is normally the least enjoyable aspect of selling...
Ian Hendry
CEO, WeCanDo.BIZ
http://www.wecando.biz
edited by wecandobiz on 07/02/2009
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07/02/2009 18:45:44
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NeilWarren
Posts 645
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I don’t know about other readers, but I find it much easier to handle all of this when I can get a “friendly” mental picture of what I’m doing. And phrases or terminology like “Social Media”, “Web 2.0”, “Sales 2.0” and so on, do absolutely nothing to conjure up any images I can relate to. I recently signed up for Twitter – Neil Warren on Twitter - for example, without really having the faintest idea of what/why/when I would be interested in my own or anybody else’s 140 character “musings” – as my early musings indicate!
As a further example, I was on a LinkedIn group discussion, trying to introduce just such a “simple mental picture” to a question about social networking - LinkedIn – Sales Management Association Group - Figuring out this thing we call "social networking?" – where I suggested that the initial stages of the Web (1.0) seemed to be everyone building a “shop” – their websites in other words - and Web 2.0/Social Media/Social Networking is more like thinking about the rest of the town centre, be that park, pub, playground (church even) or the rest of the open market square in between the shops. So then hopefully it becomes a little bit easier to try and appreciate which bit of the town you are in, and which tool or medium might be most appropriate (loud hailer, market-stall shout, or whisper?), and how that might then alter or modify your language and behaviour.
To “twitter”, for example, when following, is a little bit akin to “keeping a casual eye on” someone. Stephen Fry on Twitter is a classic example, with 149,806 people (as I type) currently “keeping an eye” on him, with the result that when he actually got stuck in a real-world lift, t’other day, there was a “Free Stephen Fry”, page/club up on Facebook, before they actually did (allegedly). And, in his “twitterish” (short) “bio” (biography) he describes himself as “Dancer, couturier, superheavyweight boxer, neo-plasticist and rapper” – just so you get the picture.
To “google” on the other hand, is to walk up to someone in the square and ask “excuse me sir, do you happen to know any good PR firms in Huddersfield” – which was precisely the useful mental picture Ian drew for me during our conversation, and again using Stephen Fry as the sort of useful chap to ask, in the market square. Now, if he said “no sorry, no idea”, that might be the real-world expected outcome, lovely and knowledgeable as he is. Or he might say, “not really, but I do know a very well-connected chap in PR, and he’s bound to know – I’ll put you in touch” – even better. But if he went all googly-eyed, and started spouting a list of 27,800 firms, lists of firms, firms he’d seen advertised, references to firms and articles about firms, Huddersfield and PR in general, etc. etc., you might start to think him not quite such a wonderful fellow, and even drift off before he’d quite finished!!
So it matters – a lot – where you are in this virtual town centre, and who you ask (which tools and sites you use), about what, with the correct expectations of an outcome. And, vice versa, (when selling or considering Sales 2.0 tools) who you tell, what you tell them, and in what “style” (jokey, personal, professional, advisory etc.). Continued……
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07/02/2009 19:01:01
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NeilWarren
Posts 645
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…continued
But then finally (on this post anyway!) let me just walk you round the various connections I made, this afternoon, that inspired this – and you might get a glimmer of what’s in it for you, and how you can benefit. The idea being that if you can start to see how it all connects, you might help yourself (not you Ian, other readers I meant)....
I started by opening up Outlook and noting a couple of direct Twitter replies from my friend Jem Spiller, who is also our SEO (search engine optimisation) mentor for ModernSelling.com and “SEO Maniac” on this Forum - Jeremy Spiller on Twitter. (And you get similar email nudges or mobile texts from most places where you engage, including here).
From there I noticed a link he was offering to a blog entitled “Economic downturn could be a boom for social media marketing” on - Freshnetwork – Blogs – Social Media Topics. That was obviously of interest, because this Forum and whole site even is part of the “Social Media”, and we’re discussing the use of it right here/now. Scrolling down that page it also had a whole host of other useful articles, blogs, links and, one that caught my eye was a video on the history of the internet – just like I was explaining up above how all this has panned out over my working life. Actually as it turns out, it was a bit more of a technical background on how all the basic infrastructure links came together but, since it rather spookily started in 1957 – the year of my birth – I’ll let you all have a peek, if you’re interested - YouTube – History of the Internet (8 mins).
And there we are, all joined up, all mooching about the town centre, sometimes just nodding hello, other times sitting down to do a bit of serious business, sometimes with a pint and a good laugh, other times suited and booted and with only coffee to hand to aid serious thinking. Sometimes just chatting about “oh yes, I think I read about that somewhere”, other times reassuring a prospective client that we will go and find the answer to their problem, or do already have it to hand.
So if you haven’t already checked out Ian’s - WeCanDo.Biz - as the equivalent of a “Business Advice Centre” and/or “Business Network Community” then perhaps you should have a look at it with those coloured spectacles on. And I’ll also just finally, finally point you in the direction of the “Overheard-What-Someone-Else-Was-Saying Centre” which can certainly help you to shape up your own involvement to follow your own areas of interest or commerce, all the way from Joe Bloggs Engineering to Financial Services for Born Again Types. And that is - Google Alerts. It works by automating a search on anything you fancy, and sending you the results, by email, on a daily basis. Searches about you personally, your company, your competitors, your clients, your prospects, whatever you like. Who are they, where are they, what are they talking about and can I join in? Yes, exactly – now you’re getting the picture. Simple, huh!?
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09/02/2009 18:01:52
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NeilWarren
Posts 645
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Here you go, you see. Fresh out of Google Alerts, not only can you see that I'm a Tax Expert, but even I needed reminding about my time as a US Sheriff, back in 2007!
VAT and flat rate scheme - Neil Warren’s top ten tips
Sheriff Neil Warren Takes on Illegal Immigration
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10/02/2009 01:03:10
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Nick de Cent
Posts 175
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Problem comes, Neil, from having such a common name as 'Neil Warren'. 
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13/02/2009 13:17:42
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NeilWarren
Posts 645
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Here's another little pearl of wisdom too - courtesy of Paul Sloane, who I follow on Twitter, has contributed on the main site, and I met in person at the BESMA's.
Here are a couple of samples from our main site - he's in the fifth panel down on this page where the main article is archived, so you'll need to register/log-in to access it (free, simple - the process, not him!) - ModernSelling.com - Profiles of Sales Leaders - including Paul Sloane. And some of his video tips from hosting the ISMM's Successful Selling conference were captured on this summary page - ModernSelling.com - Sales & Management Training - including Paul Sloane Video Tips - just so you know that he might have a clue what he's talking about!
And here's the pearl (thank you Paul, I'm definitely going to look into it)....
When you get the hang of the basics of Twitter, you can then use it to do complete Google-style searches on keywords and phrases that anyone, of 30, 40 or however many million other users, mentions. Check out their reference points, and follow, join in, or not, as the fancy takes you. Gets you "in the loop" big-time.
P.S. Oh yes, and here's Paul Sloane on Twitter.
edited by NeilWarren on 13/02/2009
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13/02/2009 13:36:17
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wecandobiz
Posts 37
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Somewhere on the web Neil you will find me saying almost a year ago that Google is a rubbish way of getting what you want from the web and that something would come along that enables you to state what you want and it comes to you. Other people do the work rather than you needing to wade through thousands of pages of cack on Google. In fact I remember you and I having a phone conversation about it.
If social networks get their butts in gear they pose the biggest challenge to Google yet.
IH
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27/02/2009 18:59:45
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NeilWarren
Posts 645
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And, for those of you who don't normally "stray" on to the main site, here's an article by Jeremy Spiller (a.k.a. "SEO Maniac") offering the beginner's guide to Twittering....
ModernSelling.com article - Jeremy Spiller - Twitter Tips
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05/03/2009 10:54:06
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NeilWarren
Posts 645
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Here's a nice demo about how some of this stuff really works.
I've now adjusted my Google Alerts to put quotes around the phrases that interest me (e.g. "modern selling") and that got me an alert this morning from our American cousins and some chap called Karl Goldfield, blogging about a Conference on Sales 2.0, with a contribution from the publisher of SellingPower and not a bad little summary of the issues involved and the possible routes ahead.
Same principles could work for you in your industry or interest areas, of course, enabling you to link to the people, web sites, blogs and communities that fuel your sales pipeline.
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05/03/2009 16:24:26
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NeilWarren
Posts 645
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And I put a new thread under Book & Courses - but it's all about this - The e-Policy Handbook on ModernSelling.com Forum
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06/03/2009 09:34:19
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NeilWarren
Posts 645
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And don't anybody tell me I'm not looking after you lot!
Here I am discussing Is Twitter a Search Engine - Econsultancy Blog with the great and good (including Editor in Chief) at this cutting edge consultancy/publication.
And they are definitely latching on to their improved experiences as "buyers" when they venture out beyond Google and look for "advice" and "solutions".
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06/03/2009 09:39:53
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wecandobiz
Posts 37
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You are too kind Neil...
I am just about to add to the eConsultancy thread with a link to my last blog article:
What exactly does Google have to fear from Twitter?
IH
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11/03/2009 17:25:16
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camaurer
Posts 3
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Hi, I have just published a white paper on this subject. It can be downloaded free, not evene identification required. http://sites.google.com/site/ultimatesalesexecresource/Home/test-cabinet/white-papers
Thanks in advance for your comments.
edited by camaurer on 11/03/2009
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22/03/2009 11:07:36
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NeilWarren
Posts 645
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Sales 2.0 can't be "too early" for a lot of people
Because here are even more live working examples of how it is now being used....
This link came to me from following @JeremySpiller on Twitter, and reflects some research by O2, showing, amongst other things, that 42% of SMB/SME (small to medium business/enterprise - and they mean the 500 surveyed, so no idea exactly how representative that would be) were using Twitter to keep in contact with customers. So I'm assuming that would be someone with a sales function having customers as followers and advising them of special offers, product changes etc.. And that, as a result, savings (in sales/marketing costs I'm thinking) of up to £5,000 "since signing up" were being reported, with 28% saying they had had the account for just 4 weeks (so pretty well the length of time this thread has been here!). Oh yes, and Twitter now gets more visits than the busiest of the national newspaper sites.
Anyway, fascinating stuff, here's the link - BizReport - British SMB's All A-Twitter.
And don't forget you can now follow @ModernSelling1 (rather than Nick or I personally) to keep up with all the selling news and gossip. The link to that home page is - ModernSelling on Twitter
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27/03/2009 17:43:44
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NeilWarren
Posts 645
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More from our burgeoning "working examples" files....
1. We're on Twitter now as I mentioned above
2. Whilst looking for interesting and relevant people and organisations to follow, I come across SAP CRM - and follow them
3. They "tweet" about what anyone thinks about their offerings
4. I "reply directly" saying I wondered if they might want to expose their stuff to a UK audience of sales professionals?
5. They reply back saying yes of course, they'd love to, and here's an example video clip.
6. I watch the clip and decide that it is worth pushing out a bit further to explain some of the background benefits multi-nationals particularly might get from more sophisticated CRM systems.
So here's the clip - William Wrigley Jr Co - Simplified Sales & Marketing Analytics - SAPCRM-TV - YouTube
But notice also the selling activity behind all this - with SAP CRM selling to multi-national sales directors, and me hoping to break through the impenetrable SAP EMEA defences, with the idea after I've Tweeted them back to show them this part of the ModernSelling.com site that someone, somewhere, will work out that this is a good audience/site, and worth taking a look at!?
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28/03/2009 09:00:52
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wecandobiz
Posts 37
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Neil
SAP doesn't really lead the Sales 2.0/Social CRM space. Fact is, no one really does. It is still very early days and all steps are tentative, regardless of the bombastic rhetoric flying from the mouths of many vendors in this spade.
Salesforce.com announced this week they their dashboard will now support Twitter, so you can graph how much your company, products or services are being Tweeted about. It's mainly perceived as a customer services tool than a prospecting tool though.
We are very keen to integrate CRM with WeCanDo.BIZ to help develop sales cycles though. The way I see it, social networks and social media are establishing themselves as a method of connecting with potential prospects as an alternative to e-mail marketing, telephone cold calling etc. If you establish new contacts through social networks, you still need an effective way to manage your contact with them, develop a need, progress into the sales cycle and CRM is established already as a great way of managing opportunities. So a Social CRM/CRM 2.0/Sales 2.0 solution would have the networking elements to bring you the new contacts, then the CRM bit to develop them.
We're underway in discussions with CRM vendors about this and I'd love to read feedback from contributors here as to what they'd see as the key elements of such a solution. I'm hoping to read about features required plus a view of what such a tool is worth and the like.
Open up and let me know what you think -- what would be your perfect "Sales CRM 2.0" solution?
IH
edited by wecandobiz on 28/03/2009
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