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27/04/2008 14:38:26
NeilWarren
NeilWarren
Posts 661
I do a lot of selling myself, but am also on the receiving end of my fair share of "cold-calls" and sales pitches. Particularly piquant was a call on Friday from some (English - Sarf Lund'n at a guess) muppet attempting to introduce his financial services offering. He started by asking if he was speaking to Newar Data - which is indeed one of my trading functions - but that worthwhile qualification started to go a bit awry when he then referred to me, chummily, as "oh hello Newar, I'm calling from....."! We ended shortly thereafter with a pretty dumb reflection on the fact that no, he hadn't previously come across a name like Newar (or surname Data), and left it unsaid that, if his intellect didn't stretch beyond that basic point, then I was hardly likely to start trusting him with any financial details.

But his cause isn't helped any by whichever marketing whizz really thinks it is a good idea to expose the same telephone numbers to twice weekly automated calls from a "national debt-awareness campaign" or all those "Mr Wollen" calls from "Keith" - where understanding each other's pronunciation seems to be the biggest hurdle. So it's no surprise that, where calls like this might now make up 50% of all the times the phone rings, that bona fide calls from genuine sales folk, trying to reach well researched and understood prospects, are getting harder and harder to connect. It's like spam clogging up what would otherwise be a mutually beneficial communication tool and, at a higher level, weak "benefits" monologues turning off buyers in their droves, when "solutions" dialogues are what they are after.

Add to that the doorstep misdemeanours like Npower's cheating and other unfair sales practices and it's no surprise that any form of selling, anywhere, is still perceived by the majority, and perhaps culturally within the UK at least, as shady practice and unlikely to lead to a happy outcome.

So, might I suggest that, if you do indeed find yourself in a battery-farm of a telesales outfit, ploughing through "rubbish" lists, with nonsensical names and lousy outcomes, or under pressure to be somewhat economical with the truth, that you a) complain to your boss b) understand that this is not a selling job and is very unlikely to teach you anything or improve your career or prospects and c) stop doing it. Ditto for those sales & marketing bosses that are running the equivalent of these spam (and sometimes criminal) sales practices. Do you a) think you'll ever make a lasting buck out of this? b) understand that you are ruining a lot more than your own reputations? and c) definitely get a life and a proper job.
05/02/2009 12:50:58
NeilWarren
NeilWarren
Posts 661
I'll save his blushes, and take out the contact details, but this is another example of really poor "selling", from a Sales Director, supposedly offering quality online services. Can anyone spot the "no-no's"?

Hi Modern, how are you today?

We've further expanded our Creative & Development Team to support:

Professional Website Design
Website Development
E-Commerce Sites
HTML / Flash Based Sites

Click here for more information or paste this link into your browser: xxxxxxxxxxx

I would love to hear from you if you or your clients need websites created.


Best regards,

xxxxxxxxx

Sales Director
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

P.S. Let alone that it was sent to subscriptions@ - so can hardly be part of a bona-fide marketing database!
edited by NeilWarren on 05/02/2009
06/02/2009 16:32:54
NeilWarren
NeilWarren
Posts 661
Here you go look - much better. None of this "How are you today" stuff, and obviously some serious family news (features) and cash rewards (benefits) in it for me, just gotta send over my bank details and a modest deposit to "facilitate transfer", I imagine.... Drink

Subject Line - URGENT ATTENTION.........Neil Warren

FREDERICK WONG LAW FIRM
NO 12 JALAN AMPANG
KUALA LUMPUR
MALAYSIA.

Dear Neil Warren,

I am Frederick Wong, barrister at law. A deceased client of mine, by name Mr.Nelson Warren, who herein after shall be referred to as my client, died as the result of a heart-related condition in November 2004. His heart condition was due to the death of all the members of his family in the Gulf Air Flight Crashes in Persian Gulf Near Bahrain Aired August 23, 2000 - 2:50 p.m. ET reportedon:http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0008/23/bn.08.html <http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0008/23/bn.08.html>

I have contacted you to assist in distributing the money left behind by my client before it is confiscated or declared unserviceable by the bank where this deposit valued at $12.5million dollars is lodged.

This bank has issued me a notice to contact the next of kin or the account will be confiscated. My proposition to you is to seek your consent to present you as the next-of-kin and beneficiary of my late client, since you have the same last name, so that the proceeds of this account can be paid to you. Then we can share the amount on a mutually agreed-upon percentage.

All legal documents to back up your claim as my client's next of kin will be secured gradually and forwarded to you. All I require is your honest cooperation to enable us see this transaction through. This will be executed under a legitimate arrangement that will protect you from any breach of the law.

If this business proposition offends your moral values, do accept my apology. Please contact me at (barristerfrederickwong66@gmail.com <http://us.mc1122.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=barristerfrederickwong66@gmail.com> <http://us.mc1122.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=barrfranklanzalawchambers66@gmail.com> ) to indicate your interest.

Regards,
Barr.Frederick Wong
Senior Advocate/Solicitor
06/02/2009 16:50:50
LAM
Posts 1
I couldn't agree more. The approach I find particularly urkesome - and its usually used by our American cousins is "I'm not trying to sell you anything I'm just offering you an opportunity" - aaaagh. And again they usually get the name wrong and usually their targetting is completely "off"
07/02/2009 11:12:22
NeilWarren
NeilWarren
Posts 661
Yes, it's the "honesty" element isn't it LAM? If it was an American invented technique, it's certainly spread here, because I've had a number of random financial services firms ring me on that basis. Like...

"This is Susie from XYZ Financial Loans and Mortgages - how are you today?"
"Fine - is this about money Susie?"
"Oh no, we're not selling you anything, it's just a courtesy call to find out.........."
"Yes but you're going to want me to take out a loan or re-mortgage if you find anything you think you can help with, aren't you?"
"Well no, not exactly, it's more just to see............."
"Sorry Susie, but I do think you're wanting to sell me some kind of financial package, not much point calling otherwise - and I won't want it, so thanks anyway".

That's not to say that I don't ever buy financial services, or discussed my buying needs over the phone, because I have in the past and might well in the future. But a conversation like....

"Hi, this is Susie from XYZ, we're just telephoning around potential customers at the moment to see if you have any issues or problems with your financial arrangements that you think we might be able to help with?"
...is, to my mind anyway, going to put her in touch with more genuine prospects, more efficiently, if cold-calling is the sales tool of choice, than all these dishonest "not selling" calls. This does assume, of course, that she is then equipped to have any meaningful conversations that develop, and knows her stuff about the differences between this or that mortgage, etc. etc..

But this all has a terribly pernicious effect because, more and more frequently, we all bump into firms who have a blanket response at reception/switchboard of "we don't take sales calls". This is clearly also nonsense, because any firm, just to stay in business, has to be buying something from someone, and some of that buying must have telephone conversations as part of the process. Thus all the debate around the place about "cold calling techniques" and how to get past gatekeepers. Like "Is Bill in please?", "Does he know what it's regarding?", "Errm no but...." etc. etc. Which is why I have been extolling the virtues of Selling on Social Networks, Forums & Blogs or discussing Sales 2.0: too early to be useful?, because at least then you can say "Yes, we've been swapping emails".
10/02/2009 13:27:13
NeilWarren
NeilWarren
Posts 661
Whereas this one, which many might see at teetering on the brink of "spam" - overcomes many of those hurdles. Someone, somewhere, has gone to a fair bit of trouble to make sure they got my name and company details right (one set anyway) and it's a pretty slick little set up (not that I need it right now, Joanna, thanks - but good effort nonetheless, with this extra publicity as a reward!)....

Dear Neil,

I hope you don't mind me keeping in touch. I have prepared a presentation for you, which explains how Moneypenny will support Newar Data and make your time and money go as far as possible: giving your business the edge in the current climate. Simply click on the link below:

www.moneypenny.co.uk/Neil-Warren

A little bit about Moneypenny

We will provide your business with your own dedicated Moneypenny PA to handle calls whenever you choose - all the time or just when you're busy or away from the office. Briefed by you on your business, she'll get to know you and your clients just as if based in your office.

Regardless of employee size, industry sector or budget, with Moneypenny you'll benefit from:

A more professional image as all your calls are captured and handled efficiently
The ability to work smarter because you get on with what you do best
A flexible pricing plan that reflects your monthly call volume
An additional member of staff without the associated overhead

Please do give me a call today on 08000 199 944 so that I can further understand your business requirements. Don't forget, you can view your presentation at: www.moneypenny.co.uk/Neil-Warren


Kind regards,

Joanna

Joanna Swash
Moneypenny
Tel: 0845 123 3700
Fax: 0845 123 3800
www.moneypenny.co.uk
Moneypenny wins
Queen's Award
read more...

This communication and the information it contains are intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. Its contents are confidential and may be protected by law. Unauthorised use, copying, or disclosure of any of it may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient please contact Moneypenny immediately. Callitech Limited trading as Moneypenny. Registered in England 3894972. To opt out of marketing material, please email: unsubscribe@moneypenny.biz
10/02/2009 14:56:37
marlene woodley
Posts 4
I read with interest your comments about cold sales calls. I manage and own a sales/marketing company and part of what we do is make cold calls for our clients and their products and services.
I hate the automated sales pitch, I dislike scripts and we don’t use them, we will not allow anyone to lie, and we insist our people understand what they are selling and who they are selling to. The difficult part for me is finding the right people. Interview candidates tell me how good they are at selling, how motivated they are how they work hard etc. They come on board (well the ones that I think I have a chance of re-educating and training) and they get a culture shock. Time and time again staff have said to me ‘gosh this is hard this is different from what I did before’. The difference is I tell them that I make you understand the market you are selling to and the product you are selling, instead of the robotic sales scripted approach that you have used in the past. You are now I tell them using professional sales skills.
I train my staff that selling is a 2 way process/conversation in understanding your customer, listening to what he/she is telling you and matching his/her needs with the product you are selling. The problem I have found with some sales staff is that they want the easy route and don’t want to study and learn their products or markets.
I have such a passion for my profession and in making sure that we represent our clients in a professional way when selling their products and services, and I cringe when I receive the automated/robotic sales calls, who go into their sales pitch without any questions or knowing what we do or what we need
Regards

Marlene Woodley
16/02/2009 15:33:47
NeilWarren
NeilWarren
Posts 661
Blimey! The Warren Clan are dropping like flies, all over the planet - or so I'm told. But can you again spot the rather poor execution here....Read Report

Subject line - ATTENTION:WARREN

DEAR WARREN,

Sequel to your non response of our earlier letter to you on behalf of the Trustees and Executors to the Will of our late client Dr PHILLIP WARREN. Who before his most unfortunate death, deposited as family belongings in a bank in Hungary, the sum of Seventeen Million United States Dollars, with the hope of transferring it to his country as soon as he is on leave.

Since I have been unsuccessful in locating the relatives for over 2 years now. I seek your consent to present you as the Next of Kin of the deceased, since you have the same last name as my late client, so that the proceeds of this deposit be SENT to your own benefit. All Legal documents to aid your claim of this fund and to prove your relationship with the deceased will be arranged for. Your help will be appreciated with 40% of the total sum. All that I require is your honest cooperation to enable us see this deal through.

Please accept my apologies, keep my confidence and disregard this email if not interested. However, if you do agree to this term, please include your phone and fax number in your response for better communication.

Regards to you and your family.

Watson J. Lane
Unity Munkácsy Chambers,
1026 Budapest II. Gábor Áron utca 55.
HUNGARY
18/02/2009 14:01:17
marlene woodley
Posts 4
I would welcome feedback on the following:

I am maybe old fashioned in the belief ‘it’s good to talk’ and to find out about your customer, their needs, and any issues etc. It’s all about relationship building as far as I am concerned.
However the ‘newer brigade’ sales people seem to think that you can gain just as much if not more success via using tools e.g. Linked in and in sending well formulated emails. I agree that you need to research and I agree that emailing can be useful, but not as a replacement for having a 2 way conversation. I gave an example this AM and this has caused a big discussion on selling in the future i.e. I called a Co, and normally the person concerned does not take ‘sales calls’ however I have over the years built up a good relationship with him and when he was advised it was me he actually said I don’t normally take calls, but I took yours because you don’t waste my time unless you know I will be interested! Would a cold email sent by another person about the same product brought the same reaction? Because he was interested and did buy. A debatable point – and I would welcome any thoughts on LinkedIn and email marketing via the telephone (not scripted calls but professional 2 way conversations)
19/02/2009 17:16:35
NeilWarren
NeilWarren
Posts 661
I’ve maybe been a bit flippant on this thread (sometimes) Marlene, but think you’ve got to the nub of the real issue here.

From my standpoint, having used the telephone for 30 years and the internet (for making business introductions at least) for about 3 years, I’m completely in agreement that a telephone conversation is a crucial selling skill. That you and your company might also still be “champions” of this particular selling method cannot therefore be any bad thing, and will no doubt have a significant role to play as long as telephones continue to exist.

That said, I’ve no doubt you can pick up from the other threads on here that other methods of getting the ball rolling, at least, are picking up speed and relevance in a business context. And you might note that the “cold” call you referred to, was in fact “warm”, given that your excellent reputation (or name) got you past the “gate” that others might confront more and more often these days?
04/03/2009 19:07:28
NeilWarren
NeilWarren
Posts 661
LOST IN SPACE

Yep, that's it, they've definitely earned a slot on here now.

Do we have any readers from Space Designs or Space Kitchens on here?

Good - please adjust your list cleaning and suppression systems then - you're giving yourselves a terrible reputation, not to mention really wasting the time and costs of your telesales teams.

Pathetic.
23/03/2009 15:41:19
NeilWarren
NeilWarren
Posts 661
D'ya know if it were me, and I was going to send out an email broadcast, to publicise the DATA MARKETING SHOW, with straplines like "Driving Marketing Effectiveness Through Data", I think I'd take quite a lot of care, and check one or two proofs, and my database, and the "Salutation" field, to make as sure as I could that nobody's inbox ended up with....

Dear Warren Neil,

I mean talk about shooting yourself in the foot!!

Gunslinger
01/11/2009 15:37:13
NeilWarren
NeilWarren
Posts 661
Talking about those spammy emails, as I was, a little bird tells me (OK, bloke in a pub) that apparently the "call back" ratio on those is now something like 1:12,000,000.

One in 12 million! Now that's what I call "cold calling".

And they still find it worthwhile.

Die die die!
08/11/2009 17:31:03
Rich34232
Posts 11
Here you go look - much better. None of this "How are you today" stuff, and obviously some serious family news (features) and cash rewards (benefits) in it for me, just gotta send over my bank details and a modest deposit to "facilitate transfer", I imagine....

Subject Line - URGENT ATTENTION.........Neil Warren

FREDERICK WONG LAW FIRM
NO 12 JALAN AMPANG
KUALA LUMPUR
MALAYSIA.

Dear Neil Warren,

I am Frederick Wong, barrister at law. A deceased client of mine, by name Mr.Nelson Warren, who herein after shall be referred to as my client, died as the result of a heart-related condition in November 2004. His heart condition was due to the death of all the members of his family in the Gulf Air Flight Crashes in Persian Gulf Near Bahrain Aired August 23, 2000 - 2:50 p.m. ET reportedon:http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0008/23/bn.08.html <http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0008/23/bn.08.html>

I have contacted you to assist in distributing the money left behind by my client before it is confiscated or declared unserviceable by the bank where this deposit valued at $12.5million dollars is lodged.

This bank has issued me a notice to contact the next of kin or the account will be confiscated. My proposition to you is to seek your consent to present you as the next-of-kin and beneficiary of my late client, since you have the same last name, so that the proceeds of this account can be paid to you. Then we can share the amount on a mutually agreed-upon percentage.

All legal documents to back up your claim as my client's next of kin will be secured gradually and forwarded to you. All I require is your honest cooperation to enable us see this transaction through. This will be executed under a legitimate arrangement that will protect you from any breach of the law.

If this business proposition offends your moral values, do accept my apology. Please contact me at (barristerfrederickwong66@gmail.com <http://us.mc1122.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=barristerfrederickwong66@gmail.com> <http://us.mc1122.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=barrfranklanzalawchambers66@gmail.com> ) to indicate your interest.

Regards,
Barr.Frederick Wong
Senior Advocate/Solicitor



Neil aka Modern., aka date

We are relatives. I received the same email. How do you suppose that happened?
21/08/2010 10:39:26
NeilWarren
NeilWarren
Posts 661
More good news from the spammers. According to my inbox this morning, the following people have all died in a plane crash...

Jennifer Aniston, Kayne West, Alicia Keys, Jay-Z, Brad Pitt, Ronaldinho, David Beckham, Gwen Stafani, Cameron Diaz, Madonna, Nicole Kidman, Justin Timberlake, Bon Jovi, Miley Cyrus, Angelina Jolie and a host of others probably.

All you had to do was open the attachment to find out more, but I’m thinking there must be a virus or some other terrible disease going around, unless the pilot was on a mission? And is s/he to be highly commended, either way?

Drink
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