It is truly heart warming to see a million discussions breaking out all over, about what a modern sales professional should be, or do.
| David Thorp |
And it was 1986, when we had the temerity to launch the UK's "first" independent magazine dealing with the issues confronted by some 750,000 of us, in the UK, that we first encountered the marketing fraternity, who already had 20 magazines for their 150,000 or so members, telling us to shut up, and get on with closing those leads they had so carefully set before us.
| Nick Porter |
So you have a LOT of reading and listening and learning to do, if you hope to catch up with all this, some 25 years later, which is why I'll keep this introduction to a proper discussion as short as I can. First up though is the "apology" from the Sales Leadership Alliance team who can also lay claim to having their roots firmly in sales and selling, albeit that they also have The Chartered Institute of Marketing "badge" to overcome. But we have their blessing to bring the thought-leadership .pdf online now, which you can study here...
http://www.modernselling.com/Associates/CIM-SLA-Sales-Leadership-Alliance-Marketing-Sales-Fusion.pdf
And you might also be interested in how that was going down over at Marketing Week, with Editor Mark Choueke (and a couple of readers) discussing same here...
http://www.marketingweek.co.uk/opinion/cim-is-wrong-to-call-for-merger-with-sales/3032704.article
| Malcolm McDonald |
My view is that we can have another 25 years of thought leadership and opinion, if we want that, but that real change is what selling is all about, which means real people, in really meaningful roles, who are both accessible and willing to ENGAGE. That's why I've also scattered a sample 4 of the contributors around this opener, with their LinkedIn links (just click on the name), and why you can use yours to log in, and comment, and then ENGAGE, and get something done about it all.
| Beth Rogers |
And you'll find lots more people (some who engage, some who don't) in our LinkedIn Group, for example on this discussion which I'll copy in there and add below here, but also on some of the other Sales & Marketing Alignment discussions, like this...
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Sean-McPheat-s-6-Sales-1328087.S.87715639
...and this...
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/missing-link-Nurturing-between-Sales-1328087.S.87375811
...and this...
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Not-business-as-usual-1328087.S.86304489
So take your pick, really, and hook up where you want, with whomever you want, but please, please, please don't just sit there, and wait another 25 years for me to say I told you so!
Late addition / edition / breaking news (whatever! ;-)
Here's Iron Mountain man - and Sales Director - Nick Porter, making a lot of sense to me (Neil - below)...
Questions & Comments
More salesman than marketer or journalist...
This is me, by the way (as in "My take...") but I'd rather keep learning and sharing and engaging than just offering my opinion.
This kind of linked posting is what you get though - automatically, just click on my name too - once you've mastered the (free) Log in with LinkedIn gizmo.
Posted by Neil Warren on
Fusion Of Sales & Marketing
Its good that the debate has been re energised by the Sales leadership Alliance. In a perfect world we wouldn't need to think of these things or would have done them 25 years ago. Any change will be interesting and challenging , but making sure that sales & marketing are aligned and fused can only be beneficial for a company, sales professionals and the sales profession and the customer.
Posted by Jeremy Noad on
And we need pictures and words...
Thanks Jeremy, agreed, and with Nick Porter's YouTube clip now added to emphasise the points he and they are making about how the internet and The Communication Revolution is central to all this.
From this end, trying to get all the various leaders and thinkers and doers together, to bring about some real changes, it feels a bit more like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8
...but that's what "customers" everywhere are like, doncha know!?
The people addressing The Challenger Sale, being here...
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/From-Hunters-Farmers-Challenger-are-1328087.S.81970057
Posted by Neil Warren on
A Whole New Mind and a New Renaissance Era
You might think for a moment that I've lost mine (mind, that is) or am seriously over-blowing all this, at the very least? I hope I'm not, of course.
Exhibit A is that "A Whole New Mind - Why Right Brainers Will Rule the Future" is a book by Daniel H Pink, reflecting research across MIT, the LSE, the Federal Reserve Bank, etc., etc.. And it manifested itself here in the land of UK selling, as one of our Sales Tips of the Week, focusing on how "the machine" (economy, individual company, line boss, whatever), might best motivate and reward best practice, from sales people who were a part of the whole. That tip is here...
http://www.modernselling.com/work-skills/sales-tip-of-week/sales-incentives-commission-cash-or-autonomy-mastery-purpose-20113954.aspx
Exhibit B is a later Tip, exploring how our entire Western Education System might also be partially to blame, primarily because they are also trying to make production line units, in the vain hope that they would also work well together, this time narrated by Sir Ken Robinson...
http://www.modernselling.com/work-skills/sales-tip-of-week/what-is-degree-worth-in-selling-sales-management-20114031.aspx
And Exhibit C is a rather poor sound quality clip, albeit more recent, from one Dr Russell Ackoff, who is pretty certain that this is a Renaissance Moment, here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJxWoZJAD8k
...so where I then dug out the better recorded hour, but which seems to have been a decade or so earlier. It's just under an hour total, but one well spent, I suggest, if you do want to get to the bottom of all this. Four parts, and they are...
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJxWoZJAD8k
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8g6ZoobDV4
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A25qNUxhpKQ
Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzGWjU_Sjnk
You can then reinforce your understanding of Systems Thinking, and how that could impact the UK Public and Private Sectors, with our very own Professor John Seddon, about an hour on each, and with Public Sector (plus case history of Portsmouth City Council workers) here...
http://vimeo.com/11896519
...and his Private Sector clients (like Honeywell Bull, BA and others if I recall), here...
http://vimeo.com/10278907
Simply put, if anyone is trying to "fix" our economy, or our companies, or the people and departments, or even "overcome our clients' problem-objections", by looking at the "Marketing" or "Sales" or any other part of the whole, you've failed abysmally thus far, so what hope you'll get it right this time?
We also had a long debate in our LinkedIn Group about why 120 years of sales training had similarly failed, and that was here...
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/real-reason-Sales-Training-doesn-1328087.S.68806699
...so we've now moved on to looking at a whole company solution, that might, known as The Challenger Sale model, and that's current / live, and here...
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/From-Hunters-Farmers-Challenger-are-1328087.S.81970057
And I'm sorry if that's a lot of words and links, but it's the quickest way I know of encapsulating a century of other people's learning, from which we can hopefully all benefit.
Further mitigating circumstances being that erstwhile Editor of Modern Selling, Nick de Cent, found Dan Pink, and fellow reader / learner Fiona Savage, pretty well found the rest - so blame them, not me ;-)
Posted by Neil Warren on
Marketing v Sales: Or Breaking Down the Silos in 2012 - Customer Collective & Sales Chaos TV
Messrs Dan Waldschmidt and Todd Schnick in the US of A seemed pretty convinced that all their clients and prospects are suffering from the same disease...
http://thecustomercollective.com/saleschaostv/73552/marketingf-vs-sales-or-breaking-down-silos-saleschaostv
...with a suggested "Change the World Dept" to replace and unify VP Marketing and VP Sales. I'll agree with the sentiment, but am not sure that "VP CtW" is going to work any better than "VP Revenue Generation" which I've also seen mooted. Or, for another example, why we might all suddenly want to become "Online Digital Marketing Communication Executives".
Whatever the reputation and perception of "Sales", if a Buyer wants to explore making a possible purchase (at whatever stage s/he perceives herself to be in the Buying Cycle), surely s/he'll ask and expect to speak to someone who can handle "The Sale?"
Marketing likewise, on the reputation front, is surely mostly perceived by buyers as the Department (rarely people) who designed and "positioned" whatever it is, not the ones who have the understanding, translation and communication skills, person-to-person.
Anyway, that's what encouraged me to launch SALES Direction all those years ago, and why Modern SELLING remains the name of this particular game, however many of whatever sort are on the team.
Posted by Neil Warren on
The Institute of Direct Marketing v The Sales Director...of The Royal Mail!!
These closed doors and locked groups and censors and commanders and controllers will be the death of me but, here's the headline to watch out for...
"Marketing can't deliver relationships at arm's length - you don't have the skills..."
I've just picked it up courtesy of the Juliet Hilditch...
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jhilditch
...who is "Communications Manager" at the Institute of Direct AND Digital Marketing, in the (locked) UK Marketing Lounge LinkedIn Group (where some bright spark thought he'd grown out of sales now! ;-)
I did mention my disgust that this seriously looks no better than 1986 when we launched Sales Direction magazine to "compete" with 20 marketing titles, which was even BEFORE Precision Marketing and the rest, but anyway, here's the Great Debate (MkII - the re-make), and you're looking for the 4th panel - 2nd down on the right, titled...
Panel Debate: sales vs. marketing
Are sales and marketing alignment a pipe-dream
http://www.theidm.com/the-8th-idm-b2b-marketing-conference/#v359
With my best wishes, and the possibly rather forlorn hope that we can actually DO something about it, this time?
Posted by Neil Warren on
Marketing is Broken (even B2C!)...
Ignore the examples like Adidas, or even O2 and Vodafone where they are talking about vending machines that can (ideally) do without sales people. But do pay close attention to the strong words of warning in the opening paragraphs...
http://www.mycustomer.com/topic/marketing/marketing-broken-here-are-five-ways-fix-it/136320
...underlining the 20th century thinking that is still chasing KPI's like "How many smiles and dials did you do today?"
OK, maybe, here and there, you can still get through to someone on the phones and encourage them to see you colleague for a sales presentation but really, compared to pre-internet, is this better or worse?
And is it going to get better by 2015, or worse?
So is your marketing-and-selling plan for the next 3 years "broken" (and what are YOU going to do about it)?
Posted by Neil Warren on
The debate continues...
Here with the SLA latest including Professor Neil Rackham's insights, over in Marketing Week...
http://www.marketingweek.co.uk/news/marketers-should-be-responsible-for-sales/4001064.article
...and here if you feel you'd like to talk to someone about it all...
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Hornets-Nest-Just-been-opened-1328087.S.105868329
...or log in with LinkedIn and say it below, of course.
Posted by Neil Warren on
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