What's the problem with (and outlook for) all (dynamic) CRM sales systems?

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Michael McGowan
I'm Michael McGowan, what's your Outlook?

I'm Michael McGowan, and I've always loved the idea of CRM (for sales). But I've never really enjoyed the usage experience, not until quite recently, and certainly not since the internet and email arrived.

For a start, most CRM tools have always been organised the way techies think which is just not how a salesperson thinks. And, if I wanted to use my CRM I had to abandon my familiar tools (email, spreadsheets, files, calendar etc) and "move to another room" as it were. So, I'd update the CRM occasionally, just to keep the manager off my back. Sounds familiar?

Over the past eight years I've spent over 7,000 hours training salespeople, and I have observed the same thing: disused CRMs littered across sales operations.

Then I noticed a particular behaviour common to most salespeople.  They had independently turned (Outlook) email into their CRM. And while this didn't quite tick all the CRM boxes, it did just fine:

  1. It was close to hand (close to the Inbox).
  2. It was easy to populate. 
  3. It linked through instantly to their outbound emailing activity.
  4. It was linked to tasks and reminders.

The way to get salespeople to use CRM has been obvious all along: make it part of their entire suite of communications tools, and an arm of their email and social media. It is not an end in itself. And when you consider that over 50% of all useful leads and opportunities make their way to salespeople nowadays through their inbox, the case for CRM living in email and related tools, is even greater.

Be careful therefore, which CRM you select. It might be a great "CRM" but be so divorced from the salesperson's favourite tools and places, that it will not get used. That's when CRM starts to work against the salesperson.

I'd love your feedback on this too, so is that the problem you've found, either as a user or as an implementer or manager of a system for your sales staff? (and if you use the Log in with LinkedIn option, you'll find that we can communicate and connect a lot more easily)...

    Questions & Comments

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    Staying put?

    Michael! You've put the cat among the pigeons.

    Yesterday I blogged the following: -

    "I have decided to continue using Goldmine as our CRM system. Over the past 18 months or so we've evaluated Sugar, Sage, Microsoft, Salesforce and other systems. We've weighed up the pros and cons of moving to a new way of working; the potential of losing data accumulated over the last 11 years; the slowing down of our processes whilst we learn new ways of doing things; the frustrations that might come along with a new tool not being as good as the old tool. And then we went right back to basics and asked the question "why do we want a new system? What's wrong with the old one?"

    "The answers fell into two camps. First was the cloud. On one hand it would be nice to access the CRM system from anywhere, but on the other hand there is always the nagging doubt about security. Secondly was the issue that Goldmine needs to sit on an old Windows 2000 server, which is getting noisy.

    "The answer is going to be - get a new fan for the stand-alone server. It already has mirrors and a data back-up, so we're going for a bit of good old fashioned preventative maintenance. Its not big and its not clever but I'm convinced that its the right thing to do."

    Now I'm not so sure. Do I need someone to walk me through outlook with a fresh pair of eyes?

    Posted by John Coldwell on

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    Purchase CRM

    John, CRM is usually bought with "technology" eyes, because CRM is still a technology play. Sales operations therefore buy the stuff using criteria that have nothing to do with sales productivity, so no matter what they buy, it usually makes no difference to results. You mentioned a "new way of working" and that's what you need to define first. Here's my approach: salespeople are productive in direct proportion to their ROUTINE. CRM is meant to create and drive a daily routine, that is so good, it makes you successful - in spite of yourself. So, CRM has got to work with email - seamlessly, rather than "synchronising". It must have a common language that facilitates measurement and forecasting. It must be capable of separating the good and bad opportunities. You NEVER hear these issues mentioned by any CRM vendor (credibly) because that's not the business they are in. And it's why I founded Salesystem - to marry technology and methodology, so that the salesperson says "this makes be better, I'll actually use it to produce more for me and the company." Most salespeople have tons of productivity locked inside them. CRM is not the key. It's where CRM sits and the methodology it brings that form the keys to unlocking productivity. One of these days, proper "CRM" will prove its worth, provided we (the sales community) buy it differently.
    Posted by Michael McGowan on

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    The future and mobile Android, iPad, BlackBerry etc..

    As well as looking back and solving rusty old Windows 2000 problems Michael, and whilst I think I understand that the Dynamics CRM bit has now become the back-office to your front-line sales-friendly tool, nonetheless are these moves going to also be significant?...

    http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-to-deliver-crm-apps-for-ipad-iphone-android-windows-phone-in-q2/11822

    And that reminds me that we neglected to put a demo or video in the opening discussion above, which I thought was pretty helpful, so can you find and link us back to that too please?
    Posted by Neil Warren on

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    CRM's are they really necessary?

    In my early days of sales, when lap tops didn't exist, you were given a BT card to make calls from a phone box and everything was done on paper or through the phones, I remember having a portable filing case in the front well of my car, with all my clients to be contacted in that month and all the folders organised by which week. All I had to do was pick out the file, in one place I saw all the detail of the various communications I had had with the client. I used to stop in laybys for lunch, make calls, make notes and all my administration was done during my time out. (I realised when I became the sales manager, I was able to organise myself naturally where others needed to be coached and shown the benefit of how being organised saved you time and increased your focus making sure you had all the necessary information in front of you without having to close one window, open another, flick between them...) By understanding the process and giving the sales people the choice of how to organise themselves, I found my teams provided me with more information willingly and felt more in control.

    My first experience of a CRM system was a bespoke one created by Lotus notes...the sales director worked with the IT guys from within the software designers from the external company to come up with her view of what and how sales people should be able to work and how it was going to make the sales teams lives so much easier and more effective....I was the sales manager at the time and therefore had the unenviable task of trying to get the sales team to use it and sort the IT problems which occurred with connectivity and the conflicts that came when entering site names ie did we input customer who placed the order who was often only the procurement organisation, or did we input the site where the equipment was actually being shipped to and would be used?

    The time, the effort, the money spent I'm sure cost more than it was worth and after 5 years of trying to get it to work, the company was bought out and the system was promptly replaced by another....to only have to start the learning/implementation process all over again...so it's no wonder sales people view CRM skeptically.

    Systems and processes, which is what a CRM is after all, is only as good as the people trying to make it work. Engage the people, make them feel like they have a choice; and listen to their concerns before jumping in with the latest shiny object....there will always be someone that can't or won't use it, but if they are being effective, Who cares?!!
    Posted by Rebecca Lacey on

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    People buy crm without a purpose?

    As a seller of a sales resource management system (SRM) we find many of our prospects and clients have a crm system, which was specified and bought by Marketing and IT and then passed out to field sales without a real understanding of what it will do for them.

    I believe that is why, based on the quoted stats, 50% of crm implementations fail, and where they are still used <50% of field sales people actively input data, never mind if it is accurate or correct.

    We believe that before you buy any system/product for field sales management need to have a valid business reason and known KPI's to measure the success/outcomes, then and only then start looking for a solution. crm does work in some situations, we use one (Sugar) for our e campaigns and telemarketing but we use www.i-snapshot.com for field sales, we would wouldn't we.
    Posted by Alan Timothy on

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    Modern Sellers are VERY busy people.

    Hi Alan (and Rebecca), and if I could just explain any "time lags" going on here, it will be by saying that Michael is "doing an Alan Timothy" at the moment, replicating your frantic trans-Atlantic commuting of early days iSnapshot, Alan, and trying to work out whether Major US or UK account will break first, and so which will leverage which best, and with Microsoft and Dynamics and their "it's an IT thing" legacy circling in the skies above.

    Oh yes, and doing about 5 sales people's jobs for them whilst he tries to find some assistance on that front, did he mention that? ;-)

    I'd also like to use you, Alan, as an example of quite how "complicated but remarkably simple" these issues and presences can be, and what you look like on ModernSelling, as we try to blend online and offline, and do "Marketing" and "IT" jobs for them, whilst nurturing our pipelines. You latest presence and offering on site here being this one...

    http://www.modernselling.com/news-and-events/business-conferences-exhibitions-events/the-game-sales-strategy-23-february-2012-london-alan-timothy-peter-michie-patrick-mosimann-20114047.aspx

    ...and which I featured in my new media-pack eBook thing, which fascinated readers can access here...

    http://www.modernselling.com/news-and-events/sales-editorial-comment/modern-selling-multi-media-pack-sales-direction-database-2012-eselling-challenger-sale-video-discussion-Neil-Warren-20124059.aspx

    ...and all blended back and forth with the LinkedIn-addicted part of our community, (the UK sales profession), for example here...

    http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Some-companies-who-are-paying-1328087.S.97809082

    And that might look like one heck of a lot of data, entered by field-based sales staff, for a not very discernible benefit to whomever, but it's a lot more productive than paying your niece to copy / paste some tat in, to keep "Marketing" happy (see Fiona on the link above), I can assure you (e.g. some of you are leads / prospects and customers, for me, and notes on conversations held, etc., and this is way better than phoning round and recording that you were away, in meeting, busy, whatever).
    Posted by Neil Warren on

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