Why do I find it so difficult to get my sales people to use CRM?

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Jonathan Broadley - JMC IT
Jonathan Broadley - Why make CRM difficult?

Before you read further, let me get a couple of things straight out in the open...

Firstly, no CRM is perfect for everyone.  There is no one application out there that will suit every sales team (if there is please drop me a private email as I'm sure we’d be interested in selling it!)

Second – and brace yourselves for this – sales people are not perfect either.  

So, in this far from perfect world, how do we get CRM users to actually....erm....use the CRM?? Well, I do! I absolutely live and breathe in our system and would be lost without it... and there lies one of the issues.  You have to make it difficult for sales guys not to use CRM by giving them a great system. This means making it accessible, fast (underestimated in my opinion) and easy to use. I had the misfortune of working with a great system that seemed to take an age to navigate around. I hated it, and didn’t really want to use it. I've also used systems that are lightning fast, but it takes 15 clicks before you can add a new contact to a record. As sales people, we perceive our lives to be tough enough, so don't go giving us a substandard CRM to work with, because we'll hate it, and we won't use it!

I can also prove both the first/second points above, because I and my sales colleagues are constantly needing (and sometimes finding) better and better work-around techniques, or finding "hidden" features that one or the other of us was not previously familiar with. Here are some simple suggestions on what we've found so far though, that have definitely improved how much we all want to use ours:

  • Design the fields so they follow some sort of logical order.
  • Use a system that has tabs to allow you to view lots of info with a couple of clicks.
  • Get them to tell you what it needs to look like!
  • Put as many processes into the CRM as possible. Remember, if you can get people to "live in the CRM" you've already won a major battle.
  • Make updating CRM part of the sales process. E.g. you can't process a sale unless there is a quote in CRM, and key fields contain information.
  • Invest in training to teach shortcuts – a couple of hints and tips later and your users are flying!

Simples!

You don't need me to tell you that something that improves the effectiveness of sales people will result in a very clear return on your investment. I'll leave that lesson to the CRM marketeers. CRM should be a tool to help us close more business, and spending time in CRM should be an investment. It's the responsibility of the company to help the sales guys realise that investment – but if they can't demonstrate how it will increase their sales, how the hell can you expect them to use it properly? So, for management readers, the bigger question you may need to ask is;

Do you need to take another look at your CRM system, rather than your sales people?

Just briefly - I'm the Internal Sales Manager at JMC IT, having come from a Telemarketing Manager background. So I have experience as a sales team leader and insight into how to get the most from CRM and data to generate demand.  JMC is an IT services partner for small to medium businesses providing IT systems and business software solutions (including CRM and ERP systems).

And I'd welcome you comments or questions...

    Questions & Comments

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    Example Question / Comment

    We've stamped out most of the obvious "bugs" now Jonathan, so will be starting the email broadcasts again from Monday 4th April, only limited (for now) to firstly the Registered Readers, and then the bigger sales team leaders on The Sales Direction Database.

    So I hope this example of me with a Question / Comment will also demonstrate what happens when people use the LinkedIn login option, for example where my name then appears and links back to my LI profile, as will anyone else's. (Just click on my name folks, or Jonathan's, and you'll see).

    That deters the spammers, as well as giving us all an easy way to find out who we are talking to. And let me just note that ModernSelling.com needs to be given your email address that you use for such things, so that we can send you email nudges when your discussion(s) get another reply/ comment/ question, and because LinkedIn do not release that - even though you'll be giving your permission with the couple of clicks that are required. Our normal privacy rules still apply though (e.g. you're not putting your email address into any sort of public play).

    All pretty simple and convenient though, we hope, and so conducive to some great contacts, advice, discussions, and new business results - as per our "It's a New Business World" starting strap line. Please do get involved and enjoy, one and all.

    Posted by Neil Warren on

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    That cold call from Maximizer

    You'd have smiled Jonathan - I just had the "tepid" call in from a US-based telemarketer working his way round "lapsed" Maximizer 10 (and less) users, to see if I wanted a UK sales representative to call me.

    I tried to start explaining, but then thought it was quicker to just show him this discussion! And he did take a look and wander off again mumbling about having to let some UK sellers know about this - so we'll see!....
    Posted by Neil Warren on

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    Maximizer calling

    Hi Neil,

    What Jonathan states in his post I would whole heartedly agree with. Before joining Maximizer I have sourced, implemented, used & customised CRMs in big, small & start-up businesses. I'm a sort of poacher turned gamekeeper.

    You have to engage with the end user - be they sales, marketing, customer service or management - and ensure the CRM either gives them what they what, when they what, how they want and increasing wherever they want. This is not usually at the desk but from home, on-line or from an airport lounge. It is either that, or as some suggest serious sanctions to anyone circumventing the system.

    This is a subject close to my heart and I've created a simple guide called "The Diamond Dozen: Your 12 point guide to success in selecting and implementing CRM". (http://www.max.co.uk/index.php/community/simple-crm-guides). This talks more about engaging with people rather than the functionality of the software. I beleive this is the key to great CRM success.

    And yep, Maximizer do practice what they preach and use their own CRM. And just like Jonathan we try to get the most from CRM and data to generate demand. Hence the call from our telemarketer (who is Canadian by the way, not US). So if you do want to talk CRM please drop me a line or give me a call.
    Posted by Mark Carter on

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    @Mark

    It's good to see someone enthusiastic about CRM and an understanding of the pitfalls associated with a poorly implemented system... it's a real issue in the real world. I read your guide and would recommend anyone to read it – I was shocked at the high number of failed implementations there are out there! I doubt the same could be said for other systems (e.g. accounts software). I particularly liked the imagery, by the way - very funny!

    Posted by Jonathan Broadley on

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    @Neil

    It's probably me being a bit dim - could you elaborate on your post as I’m probably not quite getting the inference...?

    Posted by Jonathan Broadley on

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    @Jonathan

    Yes sorry - that is me reading a lot of assumptions in to all these cold call and such like discussions I have online.

    The point I failed to make was that here we have a telesales exec for Maximizer, based in the USA, "cold calling" any ex-but-registered users of Maximizer, in the hope that some will take the time to explore / use Maximizer 11, which may or may not now offer what they need.

    I tried to explain that Tracker then Maximizer were both fine for me (1990 – 2006), whilst I myself was mostly tele-selling (or trying to) BUT, once the drift to having "digital" as my main channel of communication was complete, Outlook took centre stage, with the phone just as back up, and I really didn't want to be duplicating record data, or communication notes, or action plans, or anything else, back and forth between apps.

    However, since he probably mostly was still "telesales", I could hear that he wasn't fully grasping how much my sales activities / tools had changed, so I thought it was easiest just to show him ModSell generally, and your discussion in particular – which I did.
    Posted by Neil Warren on

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    @Mark (and Jonathan and all readers)

    However - to say I am "stunned" or "amazed" or "delighted" to see you here Mark, would be a severe under-statement!

    I have so many questions it's not even funny, but first amongst them would be "How did you find this discussion?"

    I would also add that I really like the look of Maximizer 11 (now that you've shown me - online - selling - you can see some of these dots joining up now can we - everyone?) and my prime remaining question there would be...

    "Is this Cloud, or would I still need to be my own 'server', for data sharing with other hot-desked management colleagues and sales colleagues, should that scary employment situation ever arise again?"

    (I used to run a team of 6 in my print magazine days, but don't much fancy the overheads and admin that infers these days).

    And second question, as per my comments to J above, is "How well integrated and synchronised with Outlook is it?"

    Lovely to meet and see you, either way, and very best regards - Neil
    Posted by Neil Warren on

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    @Jonathan & @Neil

    Jonathan - Thanks for your comments about our guide. Glad you found it useful and enjoyed it! Always a pleasure to meet another like minded individual.

    Neil - How did I find this discussion? You told our telmarketer, he put it in our Maximizer CRM and I followed it up!

    Glad you like Maximizer V11 - it is available on desk, on-line and on the move (via smartphones etc). I'm not by any means a "power user" of Outlook. However, I migrated to Outlook 2010 late last year and have not had any integration issues between Outlook and Maximizer.

    If you would like to see more (on either aspect mentioned above), just let me know and I will get someone far more skilled at demos than I to show you.
    Posted by Mark Carter on

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    Salesforce & Radian6

    Well spotted Neil...

    It's a great move for Salesforce. It's a fact of life that anything that integrates various systems will improve efficiency. Anyone who uses LinkedIn for example, will know what a pain it is that it doesn't talk to their CRM system. Likewise, your followers on Facebook and your contacts in CRM don't tally up? suppose it was just a matter of time before someone brought out a ?Social Media-ready? CRM.

    Social Media is here to stay and its reliance will increase. Some would say that we haven't really seen the most of social media yet. However, I do believe that as it becomes more prominent in larger businesses, you will see the other CRM vendors following suit...very quickly... as Mark is now going to tell us ;-).

    Posted by Jonathan Broadley on

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    Workshop-webinars also coming

    Hi Gents - and we now have our webinar-workshop series underway. So if you could make a comment on this discussion, highlighting what you see as "the big problem" with sales teams using CRM etc....

    http://www.modernselling.com/news-and-events/webinar-corner/Dead-failing-sales-marketing-techniques-workshop-webinar-discussion-tips-series-20114005.aspx

    ...(and join in the round table, of course), the idea would be that "specialist" interest can be pointed back here to discuss / develop further.
    Posted by Neil Warren on

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    Oracle

    No - I don't think so (don't you just love these hi tech articles??!?)

    Since I last commented here, I have been looking into how CRM integrates with the big wide world of social media. So far my search hasn't come up with anything that I think is "mature" enough yet... but it's probably a bit early...

    I am talking about having a CRM which is plugged into social media - pulling information from LinkedIn, Twitter etc to provide dynamic information straight into your system. Sounds great doesn't it?? All that "buzz" that's out there - delivered straight into your own system to manage.

    If anyone's seen something like this let me know...
    Posted by Jonathan Broadley on

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    Nearly, with VirtualContact.biz

    Yes it would, be great! I thought I was kind of getting there with Richard Nolan's...

    http://www.virtualcontact.biz/

    ...which was integrated and automatically synchronised with Outlook, so kind of one and half apps open, or just jump from Contact Management (the chat, the contacts) into reporting on how sales were progressing, but we couldn't find any serious buyers (and so further funders) of that, last year, either. (Not my company or project, I hasten to add, just would have been nice to have been able to carry on developing it).

    Did a little video though, if anyone wants to sniff out the further potential - including your good self...

    http://www.modernselling.com/work-tools/sales-software-systems-technology/sales-2.0-video-20103645.aspx

    ...and let me and him and anyone else know what you think?
    Posted by Neil Warren on

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    Another press release for you Jonathan...

    New research shows 66 per cent of CRM users rate current return on investment as only average due to 'slow' and 'complex' systems

    London, July 2011: 66 per cent of customer relationship management (CRM) users are not getting the best out of their current systems, according to new research by the specialist SAP consultancy, De Villiers Walton Ltd.

    When evaluating the current level of return on investment that CRM brings to their organisations, the users rated their systems as 'average,' indicating that, while many systems may be partially fulfilling their remit, most are not succeeding in achieving optimal results for the users and businesses as a whole.

    When it is fully-operational, customer relationship management (CRM) should successfully enable users to efficiently manage interactions with customers, clients and sales prospects by organising, automating, and synchronising sales activities and other business processes such as marketing, customer service and technical support. Yet almost a quarter (24%) of the 252 CRM users from around the UK polled reported that their CRM system either actually slowed them down or did not support their business processes.

    Over two-thirds (69%) say that their CRM system does not help them focus on daily targets, and almost 4 out of 5 (79%) indicated that they did not see their CRM system as an essential part of their everyday work.

    Nearly half (48%) also disliked the way that the system was configured, with 29 per cent saying that the system was too complex, and a further 19 per cent feeling that their CRM system was not user-friendly enough and that its fields were not specific enough to their job role.

    When asked which aspects of their systems they disliked most, speed emerged as a challenge for 21 per cent of respondents. Other issues included the system not matching business processes (14%), and users experiencing difficulty understanding the language and terminology of the system (11%).

    "The weakest area of many new and existing CRM systems lies in their complexity, with users being forced to comply with data-intensive screens and complete mandatory fields that are not always specifically relevant to their everyday roles," says De Villiers Walton managing director, Darron Walton.
    "When faced with adapting to a new system, users that do not have the time to learn how to use the system ? or do not see the benefits of the new process in their day to day life - will reject the system, bypass the important fields or add incorrect information."

    According to Walton, a best-practice approach to optimising CRM requires a business focus: "In our experience, a CRM system is only successful if the underlying technology is easy-to-use and integrates with other systems and processes," he says.

    "This can be effectively addressed by applying additional technologies that simplify the terminology and better match existing business processes, which we have seen to improve system usage by as much as 200-fold, so increasing system effectiveness and user adherence to processes."

    "Gaining user acceptance is essential to get an accurate operational picture of the business and ensure that the workforce is working effectively. Without this essential buy-in, organisations must deal with inaccurate, non-compliant data and, as a result, achieve a low return on their investment."
    Posted by Neil Warren on

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    CRM is essential to intelligent selling

    the important issue is to differentiate from those CRM implementations that are a fancy substitute for the spreadsheet used to keep contact details in and those CRM solutions that are centrally to building up knowledge about your prospects and customers. This leads on to be able to identify the value proposition discussed by Neil Rackham where a business identifies which opportunity has the best chance of being won. This is intelligent selling and CRM is essential tool to collect the data, information and knowledge from which the analysis can take place. Work smarter not harder which increases your ROI and your bottom line.
    Posted by Andy Hamer on

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    Re: Oracle buys RightNow

    Yes Warren - this looks like the way things are going... (although this looks more aimed at the larger business). Integration with other applications is also the way things seem to be moving - gone are the days when CRM was a software package used only by the telesales guys - it's now being used to manage issue resolution, how you service clients, managing e-mail marketing campaigns and closer links to ecommerce? amongst other links. At some point in the future, a company without some form of CRM will not have the edge that their competitors with CRM have?
    Posted by Jonathan Broadley on

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    CRM Advocate says "Nothing to see here, move along folks"

    Nice one Broadley ;-) I knew you'd know.

    This is what Gary Lemke in the USA (he of CRM Advocate fame - and the United Airlines Guitar Man controversy - links and stories and YouTube tunes on request) had to say about it too...

    http://www.crmadvocate.com/ssdex11/102511.html
    Posted by Neil Warren on

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    My personal experience of CRM

    Actually Jonathan, watching myself struggling with the ongoing and messy combination of Outlook, LinkedIn and my paper diary, and talking to whoever it was who mentioned the same stuff earlier this week...

    There is no way I am going to spend even a day, playing with yet another version of a CRM system, until or unless I am utterly convinced that it will do everything I can reasonably expect of it, at least as a catch-up with my current sales activities and, ideally, at least pointing me down the right road for the next 5 years.

    A big ask, maybe, but pointless for both parties (me, buyer - whoever, seller) until and unless?
    Posted by Neil Warren on

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    ROI on CRM - from 560% "average" to 660% case history.

    Here you go Jonathan - more grist to the mill.

    CRM Advocate Gary Lemke emailed this over...

    http://www.crmadvocate.com/offers/CRM-pays-back-for-every-dollar-spent.pdf

    ...with a warning that averages can be "variable", of course. But a specific example also comes to light, being that of Brainshark tracking video sales materials, through a cloud-based system...

    http://nucleusresearch.com/research/roi-case-studies/roi-case-study-cloud9-analytics-brainshark/

    And whether or not it's "advanced" for us Brits, I've loved Brainshark for more than a year now, since they brought us this...

    http://www.brainshark.com/cvi/vu?pi=753042297

    ...half-hour webinar on integrating sales & marketing.

    I see them as signposts on the right road, at least?
    Posted by Neil Warren on

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